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Author Topic: How I feel about Wurm...  (Read 6493 times)

Seanna

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How I feel about Wurm...
« on: May 17, 2014, 04:57:33 pm »
Hello guys, it's Timi (Margitka in game). I wanted to write a personal post about how I see things, please keep in mind that 1 it is personal 2 I want to hear your opinions and thoughts to cheer me up or agree w/ me, discuss etc.

First of all, I want to thank those who made PSDH a reality, and who are keeping the community alive and going.
The primary aim why this guild has come into existance, namely, killing Tequatl is almost always a succes, and I have missed out only a few occasions. I am so happy for that:)

However, these Wurm attempts.... The Wurm annoys the hell out of me. We moved the time so we can get more ppl, we start preparing 1 hour early always and spam mapchat asking ppl to get on ts, and yet... It just doesn't make sense in my head. We have megaservers, we are supposed to get ppl for the event, from all over the servers now, and still... Is this all worth it? I think after tonight not. Maybe one night shouldn't be that decisive, but after countless fails it kinda gets really frustrating.
Let me know what y'all think.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 04:57:33 pm by Seanna »
Ele: Margitka | Ranger: Barrna |Guardian: Mea Naumova | Necro: Grryn | Mesmer: Tiamron |

Mr_Dark

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How I feel about Wurm...
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2014, 05:54:35 pm »
I agree it gets frustrating at some point, I\'ve been trying to kill the wurm since it launched and only achieved it when joined the GW2Community guys and galls. But I refuse the give up and I\'m sure we (PSDH) can do it. At the time of writing we have 447 members which in theory should be enough to fill almost 3 maps, of course not all members will be online at the same time, like now there are only 134 online which is still almost enough for a serious run.

Us having trouble getting people motivated for the wurm is like the chicken (wurm ;)) and egg story. Players don\'t want to join us/cooperate with us because we\'ve never killed it, but we need (more) players to kill it.

At the moment our biggest problem is people getting on teamspeak and I think the only way to make people really know joining teamspreak is mandatory is by just cancelling the event when there are not enough on.

For the wurm run on Tuesday we can ask for help from the GW2Community people to fill up the map for us and let their people join our teamspeak. This way we 1. have people who\'re familiar with the wurm and 2. if we kill it with their help the word will spread PSDH had killed the wurm.
Necro: Darkard | Warrior: Darkward | Ele: Darkauor | Thief: Darksantard | Guard: Darkguard

Dobie

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How I feel about Wurm...
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2014, 07:54:51 pm »
If that happens... a long period of not killing would probably follow though.
Spread the word PSDH killed it and the next attempt we get a full map... filled with achievement hunters, first timers and people not coming on TS.

I agree that our Wurm tries are frustrating most of the time.

My motivation for organizing the Wurm is at the same time the solution I see:
Build a community with people that join TS, know what to do in encounters like this, are able to listen/follow what they are told and run builds/strategies that are useful in zerg events like this. With the goal to make our community a strong factor in PvE to kill the Wurm/Teq and possible future bosses, as well as the future living story. I\'m pretty sure something like the \"6 minutes to knightfall\" achievement will be repeated and a strong and experienced community is the best way to deal with that.
What we would need for that: More people and especially dedicated people.
How to get them: Clean PSDH from inactives/people that don\'t care about the events (I know this is being done atm but will take a few weeks) and then recruit more people. Recruit them especially at the events/in TS (!).
Possible problem: People with other home servers might be reluctant to join us because of our guild name.
I addressed that at a commander meeting right after the feature patch and want to repeat it: With Megaservers there is no longer Piken in PvE. And the original goal of PSDH got lost over time and because of megaservers anyway (it was to kill Teq on Piken daily).
So I think we should decide on a new (official) goal/motivation for the guild and act accordingly.
I don\'t know if there is a possibility to change a guild\'s name and don\'t want to suggest this either, but you have to face it: if we stay a \"Piken\" community we will never kill the Wurm.

Sorry for straying from the topic a little but the reason for the problem addressed in the start post and for our bad Wurm runs lies deeper. Not enough people on TS, bad commanders/condies/diboofers/might-stacking/whateveryouwanttocomplainabout, not enough overall people/dedication are only the symptoms.

Kaelik_Wau

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How I feel about Wurm...
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2014, 05:46:52 am »
I honestly don\'t believe we can succeed at beating the Wurm during it\'s scheduled spawn time or atleast not yet. The scheduled spawn times draw too many random players to the map - most of which simply AFK and/or don\'t join TS.

The closest run we\'ve had was last Wednesday and it was \"successfully\" close because I believe it was after all of the Wurm\'s scheduled appearances, we took the time to gather players (both onto the map and onto TS) and the length of time prepping (only the truly dedicated players would have waited 3 hours for the Wurm).

I don\'t want to point fingers but from what I heard the only issue marring that run was unsuccessful diboofers at Cobalt, saying that PSDH recently held \'diboofing\' practice on Thursday. Hopefully, the results of that will be more and/or better \'diboofers\'.

PSDH is moving forwards, but I believe to succeed we need to avoid the Wurm\'s scheduled spawn times and take a sort of bug testing ideology - schedule event to fight Wurm > if we fail, figure out what went wrong > schedule an event to fix what went wrong > schedule event to fight Wurm, etc.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 05:51:25 am by Kaelik_Wau »
Warrior: Kaelik Wau - Ele: Elementalist Sakki - Thief: Elis Solvfelt - Mesmer: Sybeil - Guard: Levare Corda - Rev: Revenant Sekk - Necro: Leis Norah - Engi: Engineer Lexxa

MisterFussypants

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How I feel about Wurm...
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2014, 06:55:07 am »
Mister Fussypants here, i\'d like to say that I am also very glad that psdh is there to meet up and do these events, I find them always enjoyable regardless of the result. Maybe I don\'t find them quite so frustrating as others, since I finished both achievement categories completely, I went with gw2community a couple times to understand what\'s what.
Nevertheless i\'m always there to try and do my part.

As far as the state of things are concerned, I do think a little more effort is needed from psdh members still not representing or not being on teamspeak, at this point after a long time membership there is little to no excuse of being absent there.

With the megaserver it is obvious that we won\'t always get the majority of psdh in one map, and we\'re not quite enough to spread out over several with a similar rate of success, but instead end up with a majority of random folk. I believe, contrary from what i\'ve noticed, is instead of trying to imo waste 75-90% of time we have to \"persuade\" random people to join on teamspeak which they seldom seem to do, or make statements of not doing the event if a certain treshold of people isn\'t met to achieve it that way. That just seems counter-productive to me, and it alienates the people not joining on teamspeak and regardless of that they are still there and are going to do the event.

The responsible thing to do is to include them by not reserving tactics et cetera for teamspeak, but interact with them more, get to know them and vice versa. I know it is desirable to have everyone on teamspeak, blah blah. Yet the simple fact remains is we don\'t have that happening most of the time, so might as well use what we do have, pugs. Assign some knowledgable people on typing duty (before/during/after dry-runs), an effort is going to be have to made, to first of all make the whole event a smooth running engine. And when that is the case people will enjoy themselves a little more, have faith and come on teamspeak out of their own accord.

Sorry it got a little long winded there, but I had to respond. I may be wrong or maybe i\'m not, evenso I am eager to hear what people have to say and carry on with the discussion.

Dobie

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How I feel about Wurm...
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2014, 08:02:42 am »
I don\'t find runs frustrating if we do a decent job. I find it frustrating to spend several hours organizing such an event and apart from the core of like 20 people (essentially those registered on this forum) nobody seems to care and we fail miserably.

As long as we are only doing Tequatl and phase 1 of the Wurm I agree with Mister Fussypants. We could just use the pugs and type. This is annoying but might/should succeed.

Where we really need people on TS is for phase 2. In that phase we simply don\'t have the time to type. And it requires much more coordination and faster reactions. Pugs won\'t react, die and worst of all: make the Wurm rush out of the corner.

I think we should give it a try though:
- Tell pugs that there is our TS
- Continue with the try, even if we don\'t have numbers on TS
- Type all the stuff
- After the fail tell pugs that it wasn\'t bad, we could do better with more numbers and everyone on TS and try to recruit them for PSDH or for future attempts.
In short: trick them into joining PSDH
Naturally many of them will abandon us but if we only get one or two dedicated players from it it\'s already worth it.

This will require more effort, especially from commanders/people on \"typing duty\", but I for my part would be up for it.

Seanna

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How I feel about Wurm...
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2014, 08:55:15 am »
Wow:) Okay, so let me say quickly that I am so happy that so many of you responded, this is why i love psdh and the piken community:). I am happy and agree with what most of you say and that you are also concerned about the issues:), I think we should open a new discussion for the proposed ideas, since I jsut wanted to have a topic for personal whining...:D
Thanks again guys ^^!
Ele: Margitka | Ranger: Barrna |Guardian: Mea Naumova | Necro: Grryn | Mesmer: Tiamron |

Zevvy

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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2014, 09:54:41 am »
I don\'t find the events itself frustrating. These are hard, elite events which needs coordination. What really frustrates me everytime that I feel mostly useless to even try to explain anything about what to do and when to do. It doesn\'t matter how many times you type the infos or the commands, they just ignore it because they are AFK or just because they think they don\'t need to be organized. Pugs usually ignore TS they just want to follow a blue hat and win. Yes, we can try to explain them that that\'s not how this works, but why would they listen to this if they don\'t pay attention at all? There are good and helpful pugs too, I know that, but sadly they are only a minority yet.

I had more fun and much less frustration when we did a private wurm, because I was sure that the majority of the people around us will listen and do their best to achieve a good attempt.

But that\'s me. Stupid and arrogant people can piss me off quite fast...

Rediarel

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How I feel about Wurm...
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2014, 01:02:54 pm »
I don\'t find the events frustrating either, just they take a lot of coordination. what might be more frustrating is people doing what shouldn\'t be done (when told).
As for the typing, while it might help it will always be too slow as these events are quite chaotic.
So who is assigned the duty to write, be it a commander or someone else they won\'t be able to help in the event in the mean time, so it\'s a tradeoff between having someone not listening in ts doing the right stuff and the person writing being unable to.
In the last two attempts we actually got people saying they don\'t need teamspeak to do the event and that they don\'t need to listen to commanders, or even people clearly stating that they won\'t listen to commanders as they don\'t want to be \"commanded\". That\'s really the sort of people which would be better to not be around...

In any case I\'d like to point out that even gw2community had it\'s long share of fails and I saw most of these before they could get it done. And that was with everyone following and listening to commanders even in teamspeak. At the end the first recurrent kill was the third attempt of the evening(if i remember correctly was even a monday but has been a while now..), if not past midnight quite near it. So again only people who actually cared about getting it done where there.

Addendum: I\'d prefer to receive private messages telling me that what I said didn\'t make sense than everyone being quiet :)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 08:35:50 am by leraider »

Stormwolf

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How I feel about Wurm...
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2014, 03:51:57 pm »
Yes, I know it\'s disappointing to wait around for an hour only to find that we don\'t have enough people prepared to join TeamSpeak for the event but I agree with Dark that we need to keep trying, even if we only do one or two head attempts.  Because even if we don\'t do it, if we teach some people some of the tricks each time then we\'re slowly making progress... the trick is holding on to those people and keeping their interest over time.  Also if we don\'t do it relatively frequently we will get rusty and forget what we know.

In some ways the GW2 Community guys had an easier time than we are doing because they had 150 (more in fact) dedicated people who put a lot of concentrated effort into learning the fight over a short period of time.  

Those guys did it every two hours (back in the good old days when you didn\'t have to wait 8 hours between spawns) until they got it right.  They had a core group of well-geared and more importantly dedicated players who were determined to figure out the mechanics of the fight(s).  They didn\'t have to deal with the event tourists with woefully under-equipped characters / terribad builds who think an optimised rotation means hitting the \'1\' button as fast as possible and wouldn\'t know what a combo was if it bit them on the ass.

Most of the PSDH members don\'t have the luxury of being able to commit to that amount of effort, and even if they did, with the wurm event now only happening effectively once per day during most people\'s playing hours it is no longer possible (at least not without almost infinite amounts of guild influence / merits).

Incidentally, people who say the Triple Wurm is easy fall into two main categories:
a) the ones who never tried it and are full of crap.  Incidentally, the overlap with the group of people who say you don\'t need TeamSpeak for this event is ~95%.  (The other 5% use Ventrillo or Mumble).

b) the ones who have tagged along on organised GW2Community / TTS etc events where the \'hard work\' was done months ago.   The effort they put in has been reaped many times over by people who, for the most part join their events, listen to detailed instructions and then execute the plan like clockwork because the majority of those players are running it through for the hundredth time.  And guess what - those guys still insist on everyone being on TeamSpeak.

Like all PvE content it\'s easy once you know how.  If everyone does what they need to do there are no surprises - it\'s a scripted event after all.  The trick is making sure everyone is on the same page - this is why we use TeamSpeak; this is why we ask that people join TeamSpeak.  

Personally I don\'t need TS to be told what to do either - I know what I need to do for each of the wurms to succeed.  So does Darkward and Linkazatorre and LeRaiders and (probably right now) everyone else who is posting here... we need TS to communicate that knowledge to those many people who are too lazy to read up on the event and can\'t even be bothered to watch Youtube clips.  We (will) also need TS to communicate between the three different wurms to synchronise the kills at the end of phase one.

Knowing what to do isn\'t enough for this event - there\'s no substitute for experience.  It\'s not only about knowing what to do but knowing what\'s going to happen next and (as Alan is fond of saying)  how to adapt when things go bad, without the event falling to pieces.  

Whilst we have people who are not picking up harpoons in the Amber wurm stomach, or people dropping anything other than fire fields on the DPS stack during the burn phase then we will fail... but so long as people are learning I don\'t mind keeping on trying.  

Anyway I\'ve rambled on far longer than I was planning...


jools

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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2014, 08:32:26 am »
Just wanted to contribute my 2coppers. I am relatively new to GW2 (I started playing it in 2014), and extremely new to the Wurm. I probably took part in some 20 \"serious\" attempts (either PDSH or GW2Community), out of which some 4-5 succeeded. Also managed to get all the achievements down apart for the kegs one. I still consider it a good going. Anyway, despite being \"new\" to this (gw2, wurm, psdh), I -do- have some experience with mmorpgs, online gaming, events and the likes of, having played online games since 1998 or so. Hell, I was even platoon commander when I served in the army. :)

In all honesty, the PSDH attempts are much better, and I even had fun in failing, whereas the GW2C ones are, on a good day, a mess.

In this post I\'d like to stress the importance of hardcapping the TS channels, especially the Wurm Lobby, pre-event (of course to 150, or maybe a slightly larger number, to make room for a couple of \"extras\" or reserves).

The first, immediate, advantage of the hardcap would be that it would translate into a simple \"no TS\"=\"no Wurm\" equation. The importance of >everyone< being on TS is self explanatory, I believe.

Secondly, it would make the usual taxi madness useless. 150 on TS. 150 Get in. No taxi, no people on wrong map, no people being on right map and then taxied to wrong one because no commander had their tag on, etc etc. Also, it would sort of introduce a \"first come first served\" principle, which isn\'t such a bad thing. Instead of a lot of randomers, people who really care or need or want to do the wurm for that one specific run would surely manage to be in the proper channel asap, at the cost of skipping Teq, after which so many people flood the Teq channel(s). Oh, and commanders should indeed tag up asap or beforehand (I know they already do it asap, but it really needs to be asap-er [yes, yes, I just made that word up]).

Thirdly, it would prevent many people from being let down in the worst way. From personal experience, there is nothing worse than skipping lunch-break at work in order to leave work early for the event, and then not getting in the map or not even in the TS channel. Or being stuck with a half-baked attempt. It\'s not your fault that a.net haters the working class (06:00, 14:30, 20:00... seriously? Who the heck is going to be online at 6 in the morning? And any of you who works during the day should agree that 20:00 is a tad on the early side, on a weekday), and still we have to work with what we have. Back to the point, it\'s better that people know beforehand whether they are gonna make it or not, rather than having 250 people playing Russian roulette with the \"jump\", and those who didn\'t make it curse in anger and wear down their mouse buttons trying to \"join\" for 45 minutes. Also, it could happen, and it has, that some of the commanders themselves did not join the right map, which is not ideal (again, the extra spots in the TS channel could cover this eventuality). Much better it would be, to know instantly how to spend the next 90 minutes: \"oh, crap, I didn\'t make into the Wurm team. Oh well, fractals/dungeons/television/sexytime here I come\" wins VS 40 minutes of \"FFFSSSS friggin jumptime and friggin megaserver fuckityfuckityfuck F F F anet dammit join join join the motherloving map you son of a hylek tadpole join or people will die i hate you all please please please disconnect craash die or something please plz plz\".

Moreover, it\'s always way easier to taxi someone in last-minute as a replacement for someone who left/crashed/else, than trying to force oneself\'s way in at the beginning, when the map is already full. Oh, and this would allow to enact a certain selection: it\'s a harsh thing, but if 250 people join TS, and then not enough diboof or condis make it into the map, we\'re back to square one. On the other hand, hardcapping the channel would make sorting out the roles easier, people could switch characters beforehand accordingly (impossible to do once the map is created and is full), and you could make sure that there are enough of the needed classes in each of the three sub-teams.

Well, some of you will disagree, some will agree, on parts or the whole of this. I believe this idea would streamline the management of the Wurm attempt, if not the attempt itself, as there would be no TS-deprived puggers, and the numbers, and the teams, would be defined, at least roughly, beforehand.

In any case, I do enjoy running with you guys (in fact, I\'ve stopped running with GW2C at all: two good attempts a week with PSDH are much more enjoyable), and I hope you won\'t take this the wrong way. Again, just an idea that I was surprised not to see already implemented. The critiques I\'ve moved pertain mostly to the GW2C management of the event, although as I see PSDH numbers growing I wanted to share this, so that you (/we) do not get anywhere near close to that level of SNFAU. Looking forward to some polite feedback.

Also looking forward to next PSDH event, whether it be Teq, the Wurm, or the excellently run Queen\'s Gauntlet (had immense fun a couple of night ago).

Btw, this is Tarja/Sedanorapo/more 80\'s.

kkthxbai!







Rediarel

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How I feel about Wurm...
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2014, 08:56:15 pm »
As a side note thanks to indifferent we tried to do the text based explanation and instruction passing. I said things in teamspeak and he delivered them in say chat, but seems it didn\'t go much better than usually...

 

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