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Author Topic: How to behave towards other players in a game  (Read 4877 times)

VikingGurl

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How to behave towards other players in a game
« on: July 22, 2015, 09:47:18 pm »
Heya all;
Im not gonna spend time  introducing myself as this will be my one and only post here. I wont be back to read either. I just want to let you guys, members of PSDH Guild, know how you carry yourself in GW2.

When I first heard about your guild, it was talked about with respect. But it has changed. Now when players talk about  PSDH it is in a negative manner. And I can see why when I meet you all in GW2 events.
I have seen your commanders verbally attack other players, saying less nice things to them, talk down to them, accuse them of bad things to happen etc. You all seem like you cant pull off a successful event unless you got everyone on ts. But in all honesty, if you done the event many times.... you dont need to hear a person tell you what to do etc. You follow the horde in the end, and it will still have a good or decent outcome. :)

Another thing is the way you all "claim" a map. Telling other players to leave the map cos PSDH are doing an event etc. Life dont work that way. You cant claim a map thats free for everyone etc.

I been a gamer for 25 years now, I have a youtube channel, and recorded a run on GW2 where I did TT with PSDH. When I watched through the recording before uploading it on youtube.. I decided not to uploaded it at all. Why? Cos your guild commanders and members were verbally attacking other players. Being rude, nasty, name calling, etc. Thats not how a Guild with respect for themselves will behave towards other players. I deleted that recording, cos I didnt want it known that I was joining up with members of a Guild that behaves like that in a game. Gaming is for fun, not to get verbally abused in. When I dont game for fun, I game for work as Im a game tester. And I have yet to meet anyone carry themselves as rude as PSDH.

Now I dont know who runs this Guild, cos I simply dont have the interest to know. But somehow you all should talk amongst yourself and figure out if this is how you guys wanna come across. The respect you hold is on its way down .. fast. Such a shame since PSDH is a good guild that hold good events :)

Mr_Dark

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Re: How to behave towards other players in a game
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2015, 10:51:37 pm »
I'm going to reply anyway even if you're not going to come back to read.

First of, thank your for you feedback. We try to be a friendly and open guild whom everyone enjoys joining and if this doesn't seem from the outside then we'll have to change something.

I'd like to address the following points from our point of view:

I have seen your commanders verbally attack other players, saying less nice things to them, talk down to them, accuse them of bad things to happen etc.
I'm very interested in seeing any screenshots or videos of this, because neither myself, other commanders or members have any recollection of this. We don't tolerate any form of verbally attacking or being an ass, especially as a commander.

Another thing is the way you all "claim" a map. Telling other players to leave the map cos PSDH are doing an event etc. Life dont work that way. You cant claim a map thats free for everyone etc.
When we "claim" a map, we do this to let other guild who might want to organize that PSDH is going to tag up and organize on that particular map. In the past we've had some clashes with other guilds when we were both tagging up and started organizing. Even if we "claim" a map, everyone is still welcome to join.

When the map is full we do ask people - who are not doing the event - to please re-join the map so they get in another instance and we can get more players in who are interested in actually doing the event. At no time we demand this, we always try to ask politely.

Now I dont know who runs this Guild
Me ;)
Necro: Darkard | Warrior: Darkward | Ele: Darkauor | Thief: Darksantard | Guard: Darkguard

Stormwolf

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Re: How to behave towards other players in a game
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2015, 01:36:29 am »
To follow on from Darkward's post, and whether or not the OP sees this response, I regret that anyone felt the need to post it in the first place.  I always hope that PSDH generally has a good reputation and I want to know if someone is seriously bad-mouthing etc. other players.  If someone is getting out of hand in public chat channels I will (if I see it) ask them to rein it in a bit, but I'm not omniscient - if my attention is elsewhere or if there's stuff being said in /say chat that's out of range I won't know about it

I've said it before and will say it again: I will not tolerate bigotry, racist, homophobic or misogynistic comments from guild members.   I suspect that a great deal of the chat which could be seen as 'verbal attacks' are misunderstood map-chats between people that know each other well-enough to not take offense.  However if other people are misunderstanding / taking offense at what is being said then we all need to take the time to think about what we say in public channels and how we say it.  It is all too easy for someone to take something out of context or misinterpret what was intended as banter as something more offensive.

That said, we all get frustrated from time to time especially if there are trolls on the map... if someone is looking to get into a verbal sparring match with us there are those in the guild who will oblige... personally I try to make a joke out of it and if they continue to be obnoxious I just block them when it becomes apparent that they're going to be intransigent...

To reiterate Dark's point about 'claiming' a map; we do not do this to exclude anyone, or to be arrogant or blow our own trumpets... rather to announce that we are there to avoid clashing with another guild organisation and indeed to invite non members to join us.  PSDH is all about facilitating the large events for people who might not otherwise get the opportunity to enjoy them: if we do get annoyed with people in map chat it is generally those who seem to go out of their way to prevent us from succeeding in getting as many people participating as possible.  Because those non-members cannot see guild chat and we generally do try to provide some semblance of organisation the easiest way to establish interested numbers and communicate to them directly is via Teamspeak, so we invite them to join us. 

Asking people if they wouldn't mind switching maps when a map is just that: a request.  It is not an order - and certainly not something we can enforce.  Personally I always try to ask as politely as possible.  it's done simply as a means by which we hope to increase the number of people participating in the event.  If you're (for example) farming candy-corn at Barrier Camp, or doing Sparkfly daily events, you can do those on any map instance and get the same experience: simply logging to the character select screen and back in again will probably log you into a different map instance and enable someone who was trying to join the event to be able to get into the map.

TT Wurm and, to a lesser extent, Tequatl require a certain minimum number for success and because of the way the events are timed we often end up with a map instance where we have people stuck outside wanting to join but unable to do so because the map has capped (about 150 people).  This is especially annoying where someone who turned up early for an event has DC'd / lagged out and is unable to rejoin the map because it is full of people who have no interest in doing 'the main event'.  Being stuck outside the map when all your guildies are doing an event is really frustrating!

Similarly, I'm sure we could do events without Teamspeak; at least Tequatl does not require any great amount of coordination these days.  The reasons we ask people to use Teamspeak are as follows:

1) It is easier to communicate to large numbers of people through voice chat, whilst doing the events... if you're typing then you're not moving or attacking.  Talking is quicker and generally less likely to be misunderstood.
 
2) As anyone who has commanded events knows, typing the same (or similar) things several times over will lead to in game chat messages getting suppressed, which you really don't want in the middle of an event.  Suddenly you can't communicate with people at all.  Sure, you can get some people to join squad chat which doesn't get suppressed, but a lot of people don't read even /say chat.  Talking is simply more effective and efficient than typing.

3) If you know an event well enough that you can do it and follow the commander with your eyes closed then good for you, but you are in the minority.  Far too many players still do not understand how the TT Wurm event really works, and will run around doing their own thing ignoring the commander because hey, it's GW2 - you can autoattack to win right?  Sorry but TT Wurm don't work that way.  If you find it's easy now that's because a lot of us spent a good few months failing it over and over, learning the hard way how the event works and most importantly sharing that information with others... mostly via Teamspeak! 

If you think that an uncoordinated map can beat the TT Wurm then I invite you to try pugging the event some time.  Believe me as commanders we can tell when who is on Teamspeak and who isn't.  Admittedly, TT Wurm is certainly easier now than it used to be - certainly there are people who have succeeded in the event many times and whilst it isn't necessary for every last person to be on TS, especially if you know the event, it is necessary to have a 'critical mass' of people to provide the 'core zerg' on which the others can stack. 

Anyone who thinks Amber or Cobalt can be done as an uncoordinated mass does not understand the finer points of the event.  Even if you know what to do, it is the commander's job to coordinate when everyone should do it (preferably at the same time).  If most of the zerg are not on TS then it gets very messy when, for example you think you should be running kegs but the commander has decided the beach needs cleaning of wurms or there was an eggblocking failure which was announced on TS, but hey, you didn't hear that because you're too uber to join us.

4) Teamspeak allows us to share /join (taxi) info via a channel which is specific to the event.  This is useful when we are establishing a map to get our members in place simply because you can copy text from TS to the game chat...text chat copy is something that is sadly lacking from the in-game chat window.  It prevents accidentally typing someone's name incorrectly and /joining on the wrong person and, if that person's name contains special characters that don't appear on your language keyboard it makes it possible to /join on them at all.

Furthermore, PSDH is a world boss guild comprising members from many guilds - some of whom require 100% repping.  We do not require people to rep PSDH during events but we do need to be able to communicate with them, both to inform them of upcoming events and to command during events. Teamspeak provides us with that facility without people necessarily having to rep PSDH all night.

Finally we often have a lot of fun in TS... if you're not joining then you're missing out ;)  Just to remind everyone (again) - the two core tenets of PSDH membership are - Play Nice (and be on TS for events!)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 02:07:38 am by Stormwolf »

Kaelik_Wau

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Re: How to behave towards other players in a game
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2015, 02:58:02 am »
All the points have already been covered by Dark and Storm but since I took the time to write this I thought I might as well post it.


Hi VikingGurl, if you ever read this then sorry that you had a bad experience with PSDH.

If you haven't completely deleted the video, it would be useful if you could somehow share it with us or privately upload it if you're worried others will see you running with us. This way we can see who said/did what, so we can talk to the offending player(s).

Now to clarify a few points:

About the way we 'all "claim" a map'
When we 'claim' a map, it's not to say this map now belongs to PSDH so non-PSDH members should gtfo. Maybe 'claiming' isn't the right word but the sentiment is merely to avoid us clashing with another community/guild already organising or going to organise the Teq/Wurm in the same map, and if that isn't the case, it announces to the map that PSDH will be organise Teq/Wurm and that other players are welcome to join us.

About getting 'everyone on ts'
We do fail the Wurm on occasions and we usually fail because of 2 reasons - people not doing what they need to do or people knowing what they need to do but messing up. We can't do anything about human error/people messing up, but we can explain to everyone what they need to do, and to do that, we need everyone listening on teamspeak.
Even for players who have 'done the event many times' they should still be on teamspeak. Why? Well, just yesterday for example, Crimson commander said they lacked damage, so Amber commander asked for some players to move to Crimson. If no one was on teamspeak because they 'don't need to hear a person tell' them 'what to do', Crimson might not have got the additional players they needed to decap their wurm.

Summed up, Teamspeak is the most important aspect to defeating the Wurms, this is why we repeat it over and over and over again. Unlike other guilds/communities who can max out more than one teamspeak channel through reputation alone, a lot of the time we need to repeatedly ask people to join our teamspeak just to get 90+ players (30 per wurm) out of the maximum 150.

Finally, about 'telling other players to leave the map'
Although we try our best to emphasise that these are requests and not demands, I think it can't be avoided that asking other players to leave a map can seem rude, especially if the players were on the map before us (be it maize farming or going for map completion). We can't force players to leave the map, if they are happy to leave then brilliant, but if they don't want to leave there's not much we can really do - they are free to carry on with what they're doing and we will continue organising the Wurm.

It's a shame that you couldn't have contacted a commander directly with these concerns, hopefully you return and we can have some form of discussion and you could show us the video.
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PilotA

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Re: How to behave towards other players in a game
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2015, 12:16:58 pm »
The most important points have indeed been addressed already, but I feel kinda compelled to reply briefly all the same.

Now of course, we don't know when this was - and if you have no intention of coming back and engaging in a discussion, or even sharing the recording you mentioned if you still have the file, then we can't do anything to examine that directly - but if this has been your experience with us then as a guild member and just as a human being who cares, I'm really sorry.

A huge part of my decision to join PSDH was precisely because the events stood out as being somewhere I didn't see the kind of behaviour you describe, and in a few months now of being at every run I still have yet to witness it; but obviously, none of us can be everywhere at once, maybe you were party to something intended as a joke between friends, or something inappropriate instigated by someone who wasn't a commander or a member at all but would have been asked to stop on teamspeak (this usually happens if chat is getting a bit too nsfw, but if you aren't using ts then you wouldn't have heard...), and not to mention, your mileage may vary - that ol' chestnut! Even in GW2 which supposedly prides itself on having the Canada of MMO communities or whatever, I daily see abusive language or stuff in chat that can be upsetting, and I can't help but be surprised that of all your in-game interactions, it'd be with us that you'd feel there was a notable degree of unpleasantness. Personally it always feels that I can go to PSDH stuff and get away from all that, or at the very least know it'll be dealt with if randoms start up some nonsense*. Again, if you're not going to come back and give more details that limits us in what we can do, but apologies all the same.

Well regardless, going forward I'm sure we'll continue aiming to treat everyone with respect. That's the policy anyway ^^


*The sole distressing experience I can recall was someone being a troll in Bloodtide, and the objectionable bit was them swearing and verbally abusing us in map chat. I don't remember everyone's responses so if any of us got dragged into it and ended up being rude back then that's regrettable, but being defensive in that situation would be a fairly natural response.


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Sabetha

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Re: How to behave towards other players in a game
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2015, 12:19:56 pm »
First of all, I'd like to apologize for what you've perceived. I'm just a mere grunt, but I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say nobody -- from the very top to the bottom -- has the intention to be abusive towards another player, let alone an entire map of players.

However, I can't say I agree with your points. And although you may not be back to read this, someone else who may have the same experience will -- so hopefully this clears things up.

When I first heard about your guild, it was talked about with respect. But it has changed. Now when players talk about  PSDH it is in a negative manner. And I can see why when I meet you all in GW2 events.
I have seen your commanders verbally attack other players, saying less nice things to them, talk down to them, accuse them of bad things to happen etc. You all seem like you cant pull off a successful event unless you got everyone on ts. But in all honesty, if you done the event many times.... you dont need to hear a person tell you what to do etc. You follow the horde in the end, and it will still have a good or decent outcome. :)

I've been with PSDH for two months now, and I've yet to see Khain/Jari/Nova/Gem/Red/Kaelik/Dark/Darkless engage in verbal insults in mapchat or saychat. If anything, they're always the first to stop any form of abuse on the map.

Also, with regards to the requests to get on TS, it is important. I've seen runs that failed because the zerg refused to listen to orders. It's not just about 'following the horde'. How do you know when to stop attacking abom/fill the color thingamajigs/grab kegs unless you're on TS? And when things go south, it's even worse -- players not on TS will panic. The commanders' purpose is to keep everyone focused. And there's also the influx of new players. Not everyone will know what to do each run. Sure, the experienced ones do, but how'd you know who is and who isn't?

Another thing is the way you all "claim" a map. Telling other players to leave the map cos PSDH are doing an event etc. Life dont work that way. You cant claim a map thats free for everyone etc.

We tell people to relog, not to leave the map. Relogging doesn't harm your map completion progress or farming, or whatever it is you're doing. Not relogging, however, actually harms TT wurm success rates. Less people in the map = less people on TS = smaller chance of a successful decap.

I been a gamer for 25 years now, I have a youtube channel, and recorded a run on GW2 where I did TT with PSDH. When I watched through the recording before uploading it on youtube.. I decided not to uploaded it at all. Why? Cos your guild commanders and members were verbally attacking other players. Being rude, nasty, name calling, etc. Thats not how a Guild with respect for themselves will behave towards other players. I deleted that recording, cos I didnt want it known that I was joining up with members of a Guild that behaves like that in a game. Gaming is for fun, not to get verbally abused in. When I dont game for fun, I game for work as Im a game tester. And I have yet to meet anyone carry themselves as rude as PSDH.

Now I dont know who runs this Guild, cos I simply dont have the interest to know. But somehow you all should talk amongst yourself and figure out if this is how you guys wanna come across. The respect you hold is on its way down .. fast. Such a shame since PSDH is a good guild that hold good events :)

I don't doubt you, but it's best to at least pin down when this happened. Was it last night's run? It's easier to make amends if the commanders know who to look at. You can hardly expect anything to be done without evidence, yes?

Anyway, I'd like to state once more, my regrets at your bad experience. And I'd also like to suggest coming back for another run, if this previous one was your first with us. First impressions are rarely the best to make lasting judgments on ;)







I've finally found what I was looking for
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Because I am a stranger who has found
An even stranger war
I've finally found what I was looking for

Here I come

Mr_Dark

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Re: How to behave towards other players in a game
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2015, 12:44:51 pm »
I'm going to close this thread now because:
  • VikingGurl is not going to come back to reply as stated in her post
  • Everything which had to be said has been said. We're just going to repeat each other now

If you wish to further discuss this with me, feel free to send me a private message or in-game mail.
For those who wish to read more about PSDH and her behavior policy I suggest to read the PSDH Membership Handbook.


Thanks to all who participated in the discussion here on the website and on teamspeak. Let's make sure to keep PSDH a friendly guild whom people love to join and/or play with.


#locked
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 12:46:29 pm by Mr_Dark »
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